PegaSoft.ca »  Members » Minutes News | Portal | Home | Welcome (Start Here) 

Dinner Meeting Minutes

-----
 
Archive > April 2004March 2004

 

The May Meeting Minutes

Thursday, May 13, 2004

Attendance
Ken B, Mel W, Chris J, Dave M, William P
Lawrence L. was working late.


Meeting Business


Tummy.Com

Tummy.com, a Linux company, has offered to sell web space for PegaSoft.
Anothe company has also offered to host the PegaSoft web site.  No
decisions were made on the offers.


PegaSoft Summer Retreat Reminder

PegaSoft's Annual Summer Retreat is a 3-day weekend in Ontario vacation
country with computer hacking, boating, fishing and an all-you-can-eat
breakfast.  This year's summer retreat is tentatively scheduled for the
third weekend in August.


New Mailing List

Sign up on the new mailing list at http://cbbrowne.com/mailman/listinfo/pegasoft_cbbrowne.com


Summer Programming Challenge

Ken would post a challenge to the mailing list.

Chris J. suggested a source code cross-reference tool.  Ken B. said that
was too big. [GNAT (Gcc Ada) includes gnatxref which crossreferences an
Ada project.  This is available on most distributions.--KB]

Dave M. suggested a fortune teller game.


Open Forum - Industry Quote
[The opinions are those of the participants.]

Quote:   "The ambitions are grand, but the expectations are going to
be moderate at the outset.  What we're focused on for the next 12 to 18
months is doing a great job in the enterprise, the government and
academic marketplaces."
[Red Hat CEO Matthew Szulik on competing with Microsoft on the desktop market]

This is political doubletalk, a "null statement".  Szulik originally
wanted Red Hat out of the desktop game but was pressured into a
desktop initiative when SuSE and Ximian were purchased by Novell.
Don't expect to see a viable Red Hat desktop this year.


Open Forum - In the News
[The opinions are those of the participants.]


Headline: Nortel fires chief executives after the 2003 financial
report exaggerated profits by about 200% [SiliconValley.com]

Nortel represents Canada and this looks bad on the country.  In
the U.S., companies can get away with corruption because of the
size of the country.  In Canada, companies need credibility to
encourage investment.

The Nortel chiefs probably though they could cash in their stock
options and bail out of the company before they were caught.
Under Canada's self-regulating stock market system, it's a case
of who you know in order to get around the laws.


Headline: Concern over the Microsoft "Longhorn" project.

Microsoft controls 90% of the web browser market, effectively
allowing them to ignore the W3C.  There's a concern that Longhorn
will turn ".Net" to ".Pay".  The mono project is taking a stab
at provide a .Net compatible alternative.  Do you really want
parts of your applications running in Nigeria?

Ken B. was skeptical about Longhorn.  Palladium was another
terrifying project that was a complete failure.  Sometimes the
threat of a project is more important that whether or not it
can actually be accomplished.


PegaSoft Project Updates


Software Projects


BUSH
- no work on Bush this month


MPEG Logger Project

Dave M. tried to meet with Dan B. several times without success.
Dave presented a pre-proposal summary of the project as well as
material on how to develop proper specs.  He suggested that the
next phase was to discuss development environments.

Dave also wanted to work on ways on talking to each other without
face-to-face meetings (although face-to-face meetings are
sometimes necessary).  Mel W. suggested a Wiki-type environment.
Ken B. said he installed GnomeMeeting but is waiting for someone
to test with.  [I also downloaded a new groupware project but I
haven't tested it yet.  This would allow shared calendars, etc.
--KB]

Chris J. suggested he could install GnomeMeeting to help with a
"virtual meeting" test.  He would also try to compare the pre-
proposal information with the Linux Toys book.  Ken would start
a discussion on development environments on the mailing list.


2004 Workshops

No discussion.


Contract Work

Full project specs, barring any delays, would be shown at the
June meeting.


Discussion: Review of "Chris Crawford on Game Design" (2003) (Ken Burtch)

- Chris Crawford
  - joined Atari in 1979
  - created Scram (the Atari 400 Nuclear Plant simulator), Eastern Front/1941 (war strategy game), Balance of Power (stop two superpowers from going to war with diplomacy)
  - lectures across the U.S. discussing game design and the game industry

- “Chris Crawford on Game Design” (New Riders, 2003)
  - part 1: introduction to game design
  - part 2: comparing Crawford's early games to part 1
  - this is an opinion piece not a scientific white paper

Game design issues

- What makes a good game? 
 - there's no such thing as "fun": be specific in describing what makes a game good
  - challenge - avoid loopholes, ignore end-goals - present rewarding challenges
  - conflict - physical, verbal, political, economic, etc. - make the challenge personal and allow the player to define themselves
  - interactivity - the gameplay has to be intuitive and realistic--without this key element, any game will fail
  - creativity - comes from taking the time to examine unlikely combinations of ideas and finding unexpected connections
  - these elements are the same in any computer program, except the challenge is usually from an exteral source

- Common design mistakes
  - don't start with a topic/setting (e.g. sci-fi): think about how you want the game to play (ie. a strategy game that relies on slow communications)
  - after a basic level, cosmetics are not as important as interactivity (Shrek vs. Jurassic Park)
  - trying to improve on existing games - piling on features doesn't necessarily make a game better (e.g. Call to Power II)
  - over reliance on tools - crank out 99 levels but only have 5 weapons, such a game is incomplete
  - don't listen to stupid suggestions: it's not open-mindedness, it's indecisiveness (e.g. "Can you make Civilization more Doom-like?")

- problems in games today
  - the game industry has had the same problems for many years
  - sleaze (shock value) as a substitute for entertainment and originality (e.g. Grand Theft Auto had no innovation but won awards)
  - not enough social elements to games - young, introverted males doing the code (e.g. Sokoban, Dino Crisis)
  - belief that games need to be cinematic, even if it doesn't fit with the game design (e.g. Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy)
  - with modern graphics, smart programming is not as important as a smart design (e.g. 10,000 rendered hairs vs. 20,000)
  - large, online, multiplayer games are nothing more than goal-oriented chatrooms (e.g. Final Fantasy Online)

- games are fun when you compete against people, not things
  - the computer provides a simulated living opponent
  - if you make mistakes in a military game, your simulated commanding officer should chew you out (vs. a graph or number)
- quality artwork and design do not guarantee commercial success
  - the industry average during CC's time period was 1% hits, 30% failures
  - out of 13 games, CC had 2 hits, 9 broke even, 2 lost money, beating the average

- Dave M. brought up discussion on the Civilization series
  - Civilization II, the star of the game was the Wonders of the World animations (e.g. Eiffel Tower).  Civilzation III and Call to Power used cheap animations with no sense of humour
  - Civilization III is too balanced: if you're small you can't win, if you're big you can't lose.  Small civs can no longer buy out Wonders to survive.
  - Call to Power had such powerful terraforming features that it made the map pointless (no challenge).  Civ III limits your terraforming options intentionally.
- Mel W. pointed out that SimEarth offered no evolution alternatives--followed a fixed sequence, no way for a player to express himself
- Chris J suggested that even farming could be a venue for a compelling game [Farming is a topic, not a game concept--KB]
- Ken B. said that many "multiplayer" games are two copies of games running on a split screen.  Games like M.U.L.E. offer complex interaction between the players.


On the Industry

- Hurtles to Getting a Unique Game Published
  - suppose you write a unique, superior game aimed at housewives
  - you'll need a publisher who will take the risk that the game will sell
  - you'll need a distributor who will risk his thin profit margins to carry it
  - you'll need a retailer who has to justify the shelf-space against products known to sell
  - but in the end, housewives don't visit game stores (aimed at a 13 year old audience)
  - the industry is designed to keep brilliant works unpublished
  - the only groundbreaking game in the past few years was "The Sims"

- Exploitive, get-rich quick mentality
  - designers are in their 20's
  - designers are willing to work for low wages with the expectations of getting rich and popular
  - stay in industry 5 years or less - lots of cheap labour to take their place if they ask for more money
  - high-tech companies spend 10% on research, game companies spend 0%
  - companies are not interested in new ideas because that means risk

- Business ethics are in the decline in the game industry
  - in the 80's, game companies were honest and hard working
  - today, it's common to find managers who will cost the developer $10,000 in order to save himself $2,000 ("it's just business")
  - be aware of golden offers--they may not be

Best Game of All-Time
  - Dan Bunten 's M.U.L.E (http://www.digitpress.com/reviews/mule.htm) for the Atari 400. 

Next Meeting

The next meeting will be Thursday, June 17, 2004.  Topic: TBA


 
-----